Meet Claire first if you like.

Bal: So you’re a refugee then? How come? I mean, what happened?

Claire: Okay, I’ll tell you cos of course I knew you were coming to the Centre and I knew you’d ask, but let me just say….. you have to be very careful about that question. Don’t just come out with, right?

Bal: How come?

Claire: Well, some refugees have had the most awful experiences. Just terrible. They can’t just talk about them to someone they don’t know.

Bal: Sorry, I didn’t really know where to start.

Claire: It’s okay, but this is terrible, terrible stuff. With refugees you sometimes hear about the worst things that human beings ever do to each other. Just remember, they may have a little baby murdered – right in front of them, seen their sister raped, or houses set alight with people trapped inside. Their own escape might have been really dangerous; they might have spent days so completely terrified of being found out that they vomited constantly. Someone in their family may have been tortured. They might be here alone and not know what’s happened to someone in their family, so they fear all kinds of horrible things in their minds. And before any of that started, they might have lived for months or even years knowing they were under threat, because their father was in the wrong political party, or the family spoke the wrong language, or were the wrong religion…

Bal: Oh god. So they wouldn’t want to talk about any of it. Yeah, I see.

Claire: It really varies. With some people it helps to talk about it, though it’s usually better with someone who knows about counselling. The main thing is not to expect it, you have to respect the fact that maybe they just can’t.

Megan: But that must be really difficult when there’s all this stuff in the papers about people not being real refugees. Y’know, there’s stories like…. like that they’re not in danger at all, that they are just lying so they can get into the country….

Claire: Yes, lots of people seem to think we are all liars. People might expect us to tell them our story to prove we’re genuine, but it may be last thing we can do. You might like to know that over three quarters of refugees come here from countries where there’s war, or civil war, or really bad things happening. Check it out.

Bal: I don’t like to ask you anything now….

Claire: No, it’s okay. I wouldn’t be working in a place like this if I hadn’t learnt to talk about what happened to me.

Megan: Where are from, you know, originally?

Claire: Rwanda

Bal: Sorry, I don’t even know where Rwanda is. Is it in Africa?

Claire: Yes, East Africa. The country was in a bad state for a while; and there wasn’t really a government any more. One group of people, you might call them one of the tribes, was more powerful and they just killed everyone they could find from the other group. There were armed gangs doing this. My husband was shot, at home, in front of all of us, the whole family. I think to terrify us even more they said they were coming back to get me in a couple of days, when I’d got over losing my husband.

Bal: I don’t know what to say….

Claire: I left with my young daughter the next day.

Megan: How did you get away?

Claire: It’s a sad fact that the people who really suffer often can’t get away at all. It’s often people with a bit of money and influence, like me, who make it. We knew other people who worked for the government; they helped us get over the lake into Kenya and someone else got me a forged student visa for Britain. The tickets and the forged visa cost me everything I had back home. I don’t know who’s got the house, but it was crazy, I was selling everything I could to raise the cash….

Bal: But if you’re escaping being killed or something, how come you need a visa?

Claire: I know it sounds mad, but here’s how it goes. If you need to escape you probably can’t get proper documents, but if you arrive without proper documents you get sent back. Usually the airlines won’t even let you on the plane, cos they have to fly you back at their expense if you can’t get in.

Megan: So let me get this straight, people seeking asylum have to arrive in Britain with proper passports, visas and everything otherwise they get sent back to the country they’re escaping from?

Claire: Usually, yes. That’s why some people destroy their papers once they get here. I tore up my Rwandan passport once I landed in Britain so they couldn’t send me back there.

Bal: What happened then?

Claire: It’s a long story, but in the end I told them where we were from. Luckily a British embassy worker in Rwanda knew of my husband. That was really lucky. Some refugees spend months and months proving they were escaping real danger. The officials seem to be programmed to think everything you say is a lie.

Megan: And like you said, you had to tell the officials and that…. What happened …. y’know, what happened to your husband… and they might look at you as if you’re lying…...

Bal: If you got safely into Kenya, why did you want to come to Britain?

Claire: Kenya has thousands and thousands of refugees, far more than Britain does. I wasn’t there legally, it’s still a poor country. I don’t know, after going through so much, then losing my husband, I just wanted to be safe. I wanted my daughter to be safe.